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PvXwiki talk:Requests for Build Master Status/Anonimous.
This will turn into a big flame war between people who have kept their eyes open and people who thinks he's a random scrub who hasn't proven any in-game knowledge. -- 05:19, 16 February 2009 (EST) :You forgot the people who just don't care. - (talk) 05:21, 16 February 2009 (EST) ::I don't think they'll pick a side in the "BM or not?" argument. -- 05:26, 16 February 2009 (EST) :::You also forgot that Auron doesn't really care what the votes are on RfBMs and RfAs. - 05:27, 16 February 2009 (EST) ::::That's another thing I wanted to find out. -- 05:28, 16 February 2009 (EST) :::::By being brave and starting an RfBM for Anonimous or by implying you were going to bait people who voted against Anonimous? :> - 05:30, 16 February 2009 (EST) ::::::The reason behind me not RfBM'ing him was me being unsure if it's a good decision or not. I expect to see quite the lot of people on the oppose side, mostly pvpers, but wth. -- 05:33, 16 February 2009 (EST) to clarify You know my intentions on this site and I've kept to them ever since my arrival. PvE build section still needs alot of attention and improving it to higher standard will improve this site's reputation in Guild Wars comunity because I know people use that section alot. Current PvP orientated BM's seem to struggle with keeping bad votes out and good ones in that section and dont seem to care either but really, they shouldn't. More PvE orientated BM's would considerably reduce pressure on PvP ones and improve quality of vote moderation for that section. Yes I might be short tempered at time or "dikish" if you wish to call it this I know but hey, I never seen it being considered reason against someone becoming BM unlike Adminship. --Anonimous. D: 06:17, 16 February 2009 (EST) :as I said in my vote, "PvE is easy, whether it's running, dungeons, elite areas, vanquishing, or anything else. It doesn't take a new BM to do it. For example, Chaos' Escape Runner, that did in no way require a new BM to clean up, just a simple post on the admin noticeboard for a votewipe for factually incorrect votes. That's what most wrong votes are on PvE builds - factually incorrect, and sysops usually deal with those on the AN." Anyone can go and clean up build articles or post on the AN. -- 06:18, 16 February 2009 ::I might highlight to you that "we have enough BMs" or "we have no need for more BMs" or any arguments along that line are not accepted. As a rather experienced PvXer yourself, I am surprised you didn't know that. Anyone who has the capability to make this site a better place shouldn't be hampered by such fallacious arguments. The PvE section of PvX is clearly in a bad shape, tbh. Somebody has to clean it up, and it should be cleaned up by someone who has clearly demonstrated logic in his/her serious posts. Too many of our BMs troll and go dickish anyway, if you flip through their contribs it's probably worse than anonimous.[[User:Pika_Fan|'Pika']][[User_talk:Pika_Fan|'Fan']]19x19px 06:25, 16 February 2009 (EST) :::But do you need to be a BM to clean up the PvE builds section? I am near constantly updating the PvP builds section, be it updating team builds, arching builds, changing things due to updates or posting builds which have entered moderate usage. If I can do all that without being a BM then I am sure Anon can do it without being a BM too, if you need someone to remove votes, add a BM/Admin to msn and just ask them, it's not really that hard... But like I said somewhere else, if Anon showed a general interest in actually updating the PvE section and proved that having BM would improve his ability to update it then I would support, but untill doing so there is no reason to support [[User:Frosty|'Frosty']] po! 06:35, 16 February 2009 (EST) ::::Pika, my point isn't that we don't need more BMs but that more BMs won't help improve anything major. -- 06:37, 16 February 2009 :::::Frosty, PvP BM's tend to remove the bad votes off PvP builds. The issue with PvE builds is that builds just need a fanbase to get vetted with an average of 5.98 and have a crapload of votes, no matter how inferior the build is to something else. Even if you improve the bar, it's not worth the 5-5-x rating it's received. -- 06:56, 16 February 2009 (EST) :::::And why won't it improve anything major? I am sure we only need at the most 3 BMs to maintain the quality of PvP builds, and therefore Frost, your very same argument can be applied to the PvP sections where people like Goldenstar, Rawr and Saint can simply MSN/AN unexist/tab/ska to remove votes. Back to Tai, I don't see how "more BMs won't help improve anything major" stopped people from appointing Goldenstar, Rawr and Saint as BMs. My point is that if you want to oppose RfBMs, you don't give a reason that has already been refuted with precedence.[[User:Pika_Fan|'Pika']][[User_talk:Pika_Fan|'Fan']]19x19px 07:10, 16 February 2009 (EST) There is no "meta" for PvE Wrong. In plenty of areas you see plenty of specific builds being run. You look at slavers, Urgoz, The deep, most dungeons and elite areas, there will be specific team build being run. Then you also have your Met-esqu farming builds, such as the current way to farm VS, is with a perma, 5 RoJ, 1 HB and a BiP. I'd consider stuff like that meta for PvE... ~ PheNaxKian Sysop 06:38, 16 February 2009 (EST) :Meta for PvE would more or less change due to skill updates, since you know your not going to face anything different in certain areas, for instance that team build you just set out, will be meta in VS farming untill some kind of update effects it or makes another form of farming it far superior. [[User:Frosty|'Frosty']] po! 06:42, 16 February 2009 (EST) ::It's still a build in wide-spread use...IE meta. 06:43, 16 February 2009 ::How is that any different from HA? --Mafaraxas (talk) 06:49, 16 February 2009 (EST) : I wouldn't. I would consider them the fastest way to do an area. Monster skills don't change (minus skill updates, but there are no major effects), meaning you can always beat them in a certain way. especially now that there are never going to be any new PvE skills (that we know of), such as when EotN was released. New PvE builds are not created to beat other PvE builds, meaning the meta doesn't change. -- 06:44, 16 February 2009 ::I use Primal Rage in HM tbh. There's a fun ways of Pveing, there's dumb ways, and there's smart ways. Those are the proven, FAST, and effective ways. There is a meta, regardless of the unchanging of AI and enemies skills. 06:46, 16 February 2009 Regardless of where you're playing, if there's skills you'd expect to see people bringing then there's a meta. Good discussion for an RfBM page, btw. - 07:02, 16 February 2009 (EST) :Anonimous. is the meta for PvE build pages. --Mafaraxas (talk) 07:16, 16 February 2009 (EST) ::Best. Campaign. Slogan. Ever. - 07:19, 16 February 2009 (EST) :Phenax is right. --Anonimous. D: 09:50, 16 February 2009 (EST) ::Tai, your whole statement seems hypocritical. In PvP you can expect to see one of about 3 team builds, and you can alter your skills accordingly (based on what you think is most likely), granted that's slightly different to PvE where you can near enough gurantee what you're going to come across, but that's still fairly similar. The enemies skills won't especially change (outside of minor variations), until there's a skill update, which pushes the meta in a new direction. But the funny thing is, updates affect PvE as well. I remember when LoD was one of the most commonly run Monk elites, until it got nerfed, then suddenly everyone wanted WoH monks instead. ::As for no new PvE skills, I fail to see what difference that makes, having no New PvE skills is no different to PvP getting no new skills... ::No i agree, PvE builds aren't used to beat other PvE builds, but that's not the point of Meta. Meta is something that's accepted as the norm. Windows is the Meta OS, Firefox is the Meta Web browser (actually it's probably IE but meh). You get Meta PvE builds for different things. I illustrated that in my first post. It's near impossible to get on a VSF team, unless you're a perma, RoJ, HB or BiP. That's because it's the meta team. It does it's task quickly and effectively. Like Frosty then said, that build will continue to be the most commonly used (i.e. meta) until an update occurs that makes other team compositions/set ups more viable. ~ PheNaxKian Sysop 10:55, 16 February 2009 (EST) :::That's not actually what meta means by the way, it's just what Guild Wars players think it means. - (talk) 11:04, 16 February 2009 (EST) ::::fair enough, but you get my point :/ ~ PheNaxKian Sysop 11:07, 16 February 2009 (EST) :::::In terms of what "the metagame" means in English, it's basically what Guild Wars players call "build wars", which you do hardcore in PvE. In terms of what Guild Wars players think "meta" means, it's running the same shit everyone does, which PvEers do too. - (talk) 11:09, 16 February 2009 (EST) since when did trolling influence an RfBM tab, ska, rawr. 12:10, 16 February 2009 (EST) :but he only trolls is what 71 is saying -- 12:14, 16 February 2009 :I take offense to that. — Skakid Rally- kupo! 14:19, 16 February 2009 (EST) :: Thats not true, Tai. I'm not trolling anyone and anyone would understand that your comment is unjustified just by looking at my contributions. Also Jebus, if you think trolling doesnt influence RfBM then why are you still voting against? --Anonimous. D: 14:24, 16 February 2009 (EST) :::bandwagoning and peer pressure is generally > common sense. 15:33, 16 February 2009 (EST) ::::... --Anonimous. D: 15:34, 16 February 2009 (EST) :Lol; link me to any trolling I've done since i was even made BM (or indeed, during my RfBM; i stopped trolling fucking ages ago) Rawrawr Dinosaur 19:48, 17 February 2009 (EST) The Builds he's had impact on Here are the builds he's had any significant contributions to. Some are heavy, some are very little. Build:P/W Focused PvE Paragon, Build:A/D Critical Scythe Assassin, Build:Team - Deep Clownway, Build:Team - Urgoz's Cryway, Build:Team - Singers of Woe You might be able to count Build:Team - PvE Smiteball too, but he was reverted several times and most of his revisions are no longer noticeable on that build. After looking at ALL of his contribs, those are literally the only ones worth mentioning. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me. However, I don't feel that this warrants BM status. (→14:23, 16 February 2009 - ) :Smiteball still looks exactly like it did after I updated it. KJ, do you really sure of what you are talking about? >.> --Anonimous. D: 14:27, 16 February 2009 (EST) ::Yup. Prove me wrong. (→14:28, 16 February 2009 - ) :::Also, I think it's funny that you didn't even say anything about the fact that I only tagged 6''' builds (counting the one you were reverted on 4 times). You think you deserve to be a BM after only heavily influencing 6 builds? (→14:31, 16 February 2009 - ) ::::but the point was he heavily influenced them. 4 of those 6 are great builds, 1's in testing (and will probably get great) and the other's a solid good. That's better than most people get altogether :/ ''' ~ PheNaxKian Sysop 14:44, 16 February 2009 (EST) :::but he was reverted several times and most of his revisions are no longer noticeable on that build. Still looks doesnt look different from whay I changed it to, main problem when editing this wiki is no matter what you do people would argue their asses off without any appropriate reason for it, just simply for the sake of defending a position. --Anonimous. D: 15:03, 16 February 2009 (EST) :::::Phen, my point isn't that he has 6 great builds that he's worked on. My point is that he's ONLY worked on those 6 builds. All of his other edits were so minor, that they're literally not worth even bringing up. He may have contributed to our PvE section through those 6 builds, but honestly the PvE section "needs a lot more work" than that. Imo, contribute more to the PvE section and stop bitching on PvP builds and usertalk pages and I'll give it more serious thought. (→15:38, 16 February 2009 - ) ::::::KJ when did you see me bitching on talk pages? I spend least of my time on that except for replying to my own talk from time to time if it aint being trolled. --Anonimous. D: 15:49, 16 February 2009 (EST) holy shit lol. also can someone move all the bitching to the talk page so the project page is clean thanks. -Auron 15:50, 16 February 2009 (EST) :i can if no one EC's me -- 15:51, 16 February 2009 :lemme see. -- 15:51, 16 February 2009 (EST) ::Tai was first. All yours. -- 15:52, 16 February 2009 (EST) :::Mwah, I got my share. Auron, happy? -- 15:56, 16 February 2009 (EST) bitching Support #Anon has the both the ability and skills to improve our PvE section. Damn the popularity contests. -- 05:51, 16 February 2009 (EST) #''I believe Anonimous. would make a good buildmaster for the PvE section. He is needed because none of the current buildmasters could care less about the PvE section.'' QFT. Brandnew. 05:56, 16 February 2009 (EST) #What Chaos said, PvX shouldn't be a popularity contest. Anon knows what he's talking about even if he can be dickish. It's not like he's gonna go on a rampage and destroy PvX.-- Liger414 talk 15:04, 16 February 2009 (EST) #:If we BM'd everyone who isn't "gonna go on a rampage and destroy PvX" we'd have a lot of BMs -- 15:08, 16 February 2009 #::I never said to do that. He knows what he's talking about on PvE, give him a tiny bit more "power" and I think he could clean up the PvE section well.-- Liger414 talk 15:10, 16 February 2009 (EST) #:::Tai, there are 3 kind of people here, in this matter. Those who don't know anything about PvE, those who know about PvE but don't care and those who know about PvE and care. Anon falls into the last category and I see him quite lonely in it. Others cba. -- 15:14, 16 February 2009 (EST) #::::If you want the truth I fall into the last category too (minus Deep/Urgoz and the Mallyx part of DoA), but I do not feel the need to be a BM nor the need for there to be a PvE BM. -- 15:35, 16 February 2009 #:::::Different people, different goals.-- Liger414 talk 15:38, 16 February 2009 (EST) #::::::If he cared about the PvE section or believed it needed work, he would have contributed to more than just 6 builds. (→15:40, 16 February 2009 - ) Oppose #All I've seen this guy do is troll. --71.229 05:41, 16 February 2009 (EST) #Hasn't contributed positively enough to be even worth a RfBM [[User:Frosty|'Frosty']] po! 05:46, 16 February 2009 (EST) #I don't think he's just a PvE scrub, but the fact is, we have enough BMs and another BM won't help "improve" the PvE section. The fact is, PvE is easy, whether it's running, dungeons, elite areas, vanquishing, or anything else. It doesn't take a new BM to do it. For example, Chaos' Escape Runner, that did in no way require a new BM to clean up, just a simple post on the admin noticeboard for a votewipe for factually incorrect votes. That's what most wrong votes are on PvE builds - factually incorrect, and sysops usually deal with those on the AN. There is no "meta" for PvE, meaning we don't need someone to observe monsters to watch new builds and play tactics. walloftext -- 05:51, 16 February 2009 #:In fact, it's not my build. I rewrote a crappy R/E build because we didn't have a decent generic ranger (the Rammo used Mending and was severely outdated) then included all the so similar Escape builds in it. -- 05:55, 16 February 2009 (EST) #::Yeah, but the fact that you rewrote it basically means it's yours -- 05:56, 16 February 2009 #:::Apparently, you forgot all about PvX:OWN.[[User:Pika_Fan|'Pika']][[User_talk:Pika_Fan|'Fan']]19x19px 06:28, 16 February 2009 (EST) #::::I don't mean own in that sense. I mean he can kinda take credit for it -- 06:33, 16 February 2009 #:::::Tai, lets not start on PvE vs PvP trash again ok? Problem is current BM's dont deal with half incorrect votes at the moment and no one of them would bother to go through those builds and check the votes like they do with PvP section. --Anonimous. D: 14:13, 16 February 2009 (EST) #::::::It doesnt require a BM to go through and look at votes. and i'm not trash talking. -- 14:19, 16 February 2009 #:::::::Looks like you are because from your logic BM's are absolutely redundant. --Anonimous. D: 14:46, 16 February 2009 (EST) #::::::::That is in no way what I was implying. If you read my comment, Admins can remove factually incorrect votes, which is what the AN is for. Most wrong votes on PvE builds are simply factually incorrect. In PvP it's different, that's why we have BMs. PvP requires a knowledge of the game past what skills monsters use and how to bash away at mobs that are always going to be using the same skills, every time. -- 14:52, 16 February 2009 #:::::::::PvE knowledge is not limited to what skills monsters use. --Anonimous. D: 14:55, 16 February 2009 (EST) #::::::::::You're not getting me. I'm saying that once you have done a PvE area a couple times, it's fairly easy to see how to beat it, what will work, what won't (exceptions are farming builds, sometimes). It doesn't require active observation and practice such as in the PvP metagame. -- 14:58, 16 February 2009 #:::::::::::I understand what you mean but you are talking about rather low-end areas of PvE, somewhat like PvE equivalent of RA. If we speak about high end PvE, record Elite Mission runs it does requre skill and practice. You even somewhat prove my point I'm saying that once you have done a PvE area a '''couple times. --Anonimous. D: 15:09, 16 February 2009 (EST) #::::::::::::I don't get how that proves your point, but whatever. The thing is, putting the build on PvX in the correct way and getting it into great/good/other =/= actually practicing and using the build. I have done UWSC I'd guess 50 times, and (minus behemoth spawns...) it's '''the exact same every time. And, believe it or not, I got the bits I can do after doing the area a couple times. And UWSC is definitely not low-end PvE, right? -- 15:16, 16 February 2009 #:::::::::::::Are you serious? UWSC is almost below old ascalon in the pve noobness line. There are so many scrubs and epic failures in uwsc atm, that it's hardly worth counting as pve anymore. It's basically running randomway in HA: It may work for the first round every once in a while, but it's always a pile of shit. Life 16:26, 16 February 2009 (EST) #I agree that we need at least a few dedicated PvE BMs. However, I don't believe anonimous is that great of a candidate for this role as of right now. Life 06:25, 16 February 2009 (EST) #:Then who should get RfBM'd? I'd be a way too biased BM, and I'm not a that good player (not that anyone on PvX would be really good) -- 06:51, 16 February 2009 (EST) #::At this point, no one. Tbh, no one currently on pvx deserves it. Anonimous is definitely closest to being a good candidate for this, but I'm not voting for him just because he's the only mediocre candidate. Life 16:20, 16 February 2009 (EST) #—ǘŋƐxɩsƫ 06:34, 16 February 2009 (EST) #No, he acts like he is the end all be all of PvE. He will not listen to anyone else. He refuses to cooperate. We don't need a sole PvE BM. It's not hard enough to warrant that. [[User:Zefir|'God' ]][[User_talk:Zefir|'Zefir']] 09:55, 16 February 2009 (EST) #:All our BM's are PvP unless requested otherwise. He co-operates if you try a reasonable compromiss. -- 10:00, 16 February 2009 (EST) #::^ that. Zefir, I dont mind cooperating, litening ect. but dont mix those up with cock sucking. --Anonimous. D: 14:48, 16 February 2009 (EST) #He's a troll, PvE is lol, and having a BM for the sole purpose of PvE is lol especially because the entire game can be won simply by having an imbagon in your party, or running through it with shadowform.----ﮎHædõ๘یíɳ19px 11:03, 16 February 2009 (EST) #:Yes, it can, because people come to PvX after those builds. Is PvE lol if the imbagon or perma build sucks? -- 11:07, 16 February 2009 (EST) #::Yes, it is.----ﮎHædõ๘یíɳ19px 11:38, 16 February 2009 (EST) #:::Generic comment by someone who has no idea about pve. --Anonimous. D: 14:15, 16 February 2009 (EST) #Seems to know about PvE, but all I've seen him do is troll and piss people off. Also has edited about 3 builds. --'Oj'▲' ' 11:15, 16 February 2009 (EST) #:Oj nearly all of my contributions are to Build articles I never run around this site trolling people on their talk pages. --Anonimous. D: 14:09, 16 February 2009 (EST) #Known him since his first day and he's done nothing but troll and piss people off. I keep hearing people say that he's good at PvE, but SOMEONE FUCKING PROVE IT! I've looked through his contribs and read what he's written on builds and I'm just not impressed. Someone please give me at least 1 good example of where this guy knows what the hell he's talking about. (→11:43, 16 February 2009 - ) #:Build:Team - Urgoz's Cryway. That was in Trash before he finished with it. i'd consider that an excellent example.... ~ PheNaxKian Sysop 11:47, 16 February 2009 (EST) #::So....he has 1 vetted build? :/ I'm still not impressed...... (→11:50, 16 February 2009 - ) #:::Oh, and don't get me wrong. I agree with the idea that we need a BM who's more PvE oriented, but apparently a lot of people hate Anon (and for good reasons, I'm sure). Honestly, I just don't see how his contribs qualify him as a BM. He's done no more than most people around here to qualify. (→11:52, 16 February 2009 - ) #::::i could list every posiable build he's constructivly edited to, but other than it being a mess, it's esier if i just say: actively editing the build artical and talking on build articals, i'll leave you to decided what's considered BM worthy. ~ PheNaxKian Sysop 12:04, 16 February 2009 (EST) #:::::already looked through them, tbh. I don't consider them BM worthy, but I'm only one vote. (→12:07, 16 February 2009 - ) #I dont feel comfortable with giving the ability to remove ratings from any build to a person who flames PvE people and trolls PvP, regardless of how good he is at PvE. 12:09, 16 February 2009 (EST) #So, he has a decent idea of what's run and has fixed a few builds up. We've declined plenty of rfbms in the past for that, Frosty's for example. The only real reason I can see for this rfbm is that we don't have a PvE BM, but I don't really see why we need one. The PvE section needs considerably less maintainance than the PvP section does, and the builds that are obviously over/underrated are usually dealt with by one of the "PvP" BMs. Even if it's decided that we do want a PvE BM, bear in mind that we can't restrict the areas that BM powers apply to, and Anoniomous has shown plenty of times in the past that he has no concept of being out of his depth. I can see giving him BM leading to plenty of Frv-esque removals. Tab 15:16, 16 February 2009 (EST) #Buildmasters for the easiest aspect of Guild Wars is dumb beyond belief. Even then, terrible at conflict revolution, arrogant, and lacks respect. -- 15:29, 16 February 2009 (EST) #:GoD you are such a dick. --Anonimous. D: 15:30, 16 February 2009 (EST) #::Way to prove his point and sealing your failed nomination. good game sir!----ﮎHædõ๘یíɳ19px 15:47, 16 February 2009 (EST) #::Thank you for an example of GoD's point. 15:32, 16 February 2009 (EST) #:::Let's kiss ass to get more votes, aye? -- 15:33, 16 February 2009 (EST) #::::Also, resolution. If you're gonna point out his flaws, you could at least not be a dick when approaching it. He's a dick, you're a dick, and we all know two dicks don't mesh well. So end this right here and leave your commentary at that. You don't think he'd be a good BM based off of PvE being easy and him being bad at people. OK. 15:34, 16 February 2009 Neutral #Knows what he's talking about, but is too dickish to get his point across. Maybe he changes? 05:54, 16 February 2009 #:Being a dick didn't prevent people like Goldenstar from becoming bm's ;D -- 07:17, 16 February 2009 (EST) #::My reservation about him being BM is the way he purposely criticizes on PvP builds from a PvE perspective, and it strikes me as especially childish. [[User:Pika_Fan|'Pika']][[User_talk:Pika_Fan|'Fan']]19x19px 07:19, 16 February 2009 (EST) #:::He has actually tried to help out on PvP builds too, according to his best knowledge. I don't think he has trolled since he got banned for it, and I kinda expect him to stop doing it atleast when/if he becomes a BM. -- 07:35, 16 February 2009 (EST) #::::Which is why I am neutral, as opposed to oppose.[[User:Pika_Fan|'Pika']][[User_talk:Pika_Fan|'Fan']]19x19px 07:36, 16 February 2009 (EST) #:::::Fine so. -- 07:37, 16 February 2009 (EST) #::::::I stopped doing that long time ago now, last time I made Tab cry was by accident. --Anonimous. D: 07:40, 16 February 2009 (EST) #:::::::Not so long ago, which is the issue here. -- 07:41, 16 February 2009 (EST) #::::::::And I say too dickish from a standpoint that no one will agree with someone relentlessly trolling them without ever nicely clarifying their argument. And I didn't even vote in Goldenstars RfBM. My PC was broke then. 07:54, 16 February 2009 #:::::::::From what I've seen he clarifies his points whenever he isn't trolling, which already was said to have ended. -- 08:01, 16 February 2009 (EST) #::::::::::Relentlessly trolling? I'm not trolling anyone Big, I dont get what you are talking about here. --Anonimous. D: 09:47, 16 February 2009 (EST) #Knows his stuff, but needs to be more experienced and mature while contributing to the site.[[User:Pika_Fan|'Pika']][[User_talk:Pika_Fan|'Fan']]19x19px 05:16, 16 February 2009 (EST) #Undecided. Tycn 06:38, 16 February 2009 (EST) #Same as Tycn, Can't decide one way or the other atm. ~ PheNaxKian Sysop 07:44, 16 February 2009 (EST) #What reasons are there for him being BM? Either PvE should require a BM due to it's difficulty and he knows more about people, or there are too few BMs to remove all bad votes he report on admin noticeboard, or it will make him become more active. PvE is not hard in any way. There are if something too many BMs. That means that if he says that he will become more active upon becoming BM, I will support. As of now, I stand neutral. Image:GodlyCompanion-cube.jpg 09:00, 16 February 2009 (EST) #Undecided. 09:35, 16 February 2009 (EST) the person thats worthy enough for pve bm is ressmonkey imo Hydra 18:47, 17 March 2009 (UTC)